Episode 4. Money and relationships

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This podcast is for education and entertainment purposes. It's not financial advice and doesn't take into account your objectives, financial situation or needs. You should consider if the information in this podcast is appropriate for you and contact a professional financial adviser. If you are seeking financial advice. Hello and welcome to episode four of Women's Financial Empowerment, a podcast series from Teachers Mutual Bank, where we look at practical ways women can build their financial wellbeing and score some big financial goals.

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But before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders, past, present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. I'm your host, Nicole Banks, and today's episode is the first of two where we will look at a really serious topic, I think, money and relationships.

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Because when you share your life with someone, you'll likely to be sharing some financial aspects of it too, and we often don't talk about the impact of that. So in today's episode, we'll be talking about some of the myths around finance in relationships. We'll talk about how to start conversations about finances with your partner and really importantly, how to make those conversations productive.

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We'll talk about the benefits and possible issues that might come up with having shared accounts. And we'll also talk about what to do if, sadly, a relationship ship comes to an end. Our next episode covers red flags and the relationship and financial aspects of leaving when the relationship is no longer healthy. But first, I want to take a moment here to remind our Australian listeners, if you think you might be in an unhealthy relationship.

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You can seek support. You can call one 800 respect on one 800 737732 to talk to someone. Or you can text one 800 respect on 045873732 for help via SMS or call lifeline on 131114. And if you are in danger, please call 000 for emergency support. Now let's get on with today's episode. I'll be talking about money and relationships with my very knowledgeable guest, financial wellbeing coach Betsy Westcott.

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Betsy has qualifications in financial advice, home lending and money coaching, and her whole career has been about helping Australians be more informed and make better decisions about money. Hi Betsy. It's great that you're joining us again on such an interesting topic, money and relationships. Thanks, Michael. It feels weird to say, but this is one of my favourite topics and I think I spend so much time working with couples, helping them to overcome those challenges that can arise in a relationship, particularly around aligning on goals and having healthy money conversations.

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And I just know the impact of being able to do this well on not only a couple's financial position, but the quality of their relationship too. It's such an important topic, and I know for a lot of people they're probably sitting there wondering, where do we even begin with relationships? And let me say, whether you're single, dating or married, whatever your situation is, we all know that money and love can make for odd bedfellows.

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And it's often something that doesn't really feel very romantic. Know raising a money conversation with your loved one, but who you partner with can have a huge impact on your financial outcomes and I think historically for women, it's not been seen as our role to take the lead on finances, to even partake in the finances. And and certainly it's not been seen as a feminine quality to to be raising the issue of finances.

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But no one will ever care about your money as much as you care about your money. So it's so important that within your relationship that you stay engaged around the finances, that you have open conversations. It's okay to delegate certain tasks, but you must never, ever abdicate on the finances because the moment that you do that, you hand over the control of your life to someone else.

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And it's such an uncomfortable topic for so many relationships, which is really interesting because it has such a huge impact on how that relationship matures. So I'm really excited to get into this topic and this is the place to get some pointers on how to keep your finances working. So especially on how to have a conversation with your partner about money.

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But so you're going to help us with that a little bit later in this episode. But first up, we'll have a look at some of the myths about finances in relationships. So Betsy, money in relationships can be a complicated topic no matter what stage of a relationship you're at now, there are obvious benefits to doing it right, such as sharing financial responsibilities, which can make it easier to buy a home because you can increase your borrowing power certainly with two incomes and save money because you're splitting bills, rent, etc. There's such a great opportunity to combine those finances for greater gain.

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But it's also important to maintain financial independence. It can provide greater personal financial security, but it can also reduce the risk of discrimination and control. And I know we're going to get into that later. And if you have children, maintaining some level of independence can also be a good role model for the next generation. And I've certainly seen that my mum was terribly uncomfortable with money and I had to learn you're not from my family but from outside sources.

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So I think this podcast is going to help a few people. Now there are some myths around finance in relationships, right? Tell us about that. Yeah, it's funny. There's all sorts of expectations, so-called unwritten rules, like, for example, some of us will have an expectation around who should pay on the first night, for example, or some of our older listeners might remember hearing that if you're going to purchase an engagement ring, it should typically cost two or three months salary.

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And I'm like, Do you even know where I'm from? I think it comes from the diamond industry. Just quietly I say, Yeah, it was it was started by a marketing company way back in the 1930s, and back then it was just one month. But that figure has, you know, somehow grown over time. But it's not actually a tradition.

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There's no real role or purpose behind it. But some of these ideas are so ingrained that we don't even question them. We don't even think too much about them. We just adopt them to be true. And some of these can be pretty harmless. A lot are simply being ignored or rewritten by younger generations. But there's some other myths around how we should be managing our money and relationships that can be quite frankly, damaging.

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So for example, things like, it's rude to talk about money that is not helpful for your relationship. That money's not important when it comes to love. Let me tell you from all of the coaching I've done, money really impacts relationships a lot, and I know it might feel icky to think that that's a part of the equation, but it honestly is.

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Another rule is that pre-nups or what they're actually called, is binding financial agreements in Australia, while they're only for rich people. Not true. And then the fourth one is that you need to be married if you want financial security. Well, let me tell you, girls, a man is not a financial plan. You're probably the best, most reliable source for that.

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And Nicole, you'll remember we've spoken about how some women don't have confidence in their abilities with their finances, so they will learn or maybe default to leaving it to their partner to make money decisions. Listeners remember knowledge is power. Anyone can learn how to manage their finances without too much hassle. And I certainly know the power of this from my own upbringing.

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So my mum was a nurse. In fact, actually it's a quite relevant and she and my father separated around the age of I was about six, My brother's a bit older, a bit younger, and so she moved to a new city with three little kids in tow working on a nurse's salary. And as we know, nurses unfortunately are not the most highly remunerated industry.

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But one thing my mum did have was very sound financial skills. She was really good at engaging with their finances, knowing what money was coming in, what was going out and having that enabled her to purchase and pay off a house to always buy her cars with cash, not borrowing money to buy them. And she was able to retire in her mid 6065 with enough superannuation saved with a home paid off to mean that she could enjoy a comfortable retirement, which interestingly a lot of her friends who are also in the medical industry, many of whom were surgeons, are still working even though they're much older than her, because they haven't done that financial planning

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and had that good financial practices in place. Despite earning so much more money than her. So as I always say, knowledge is power and it's not about how much money you earn but what you do with it that creates that long term financial wellbeing. And we have heaps of material to help our members make sense of their finances, which are available for free on the teachers mutual bank website.

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The government money smart dot gov dot our website is actually another great source. I love that website. I think it's probably my my second most favourite website. One of your big go tos. So that's a good tip. Honestly, I'm on there all the time. So the important thing women need to know is that you don't have to follow these any so-called rules that you might have heard.

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Every relationship's different. And within that you get to set your own expectations about what you want and have a conversation with your partner about that. There are pros and cons to sharing your finances with someone else, but a lot of those cons you can actually just avoid by talking about money nice and early in the relationship. But those conversations can be really hard.

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Come back. Yes, I think that's where we should start with how to begin these conversations. It's an important skill. We'll come back with more after the break.

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I'm back with my guest, Financial Wellbeing coach Betsy Westcott, talking about money and relationships. Now, this is a really interesting topic. So, Betsy, you say that having a conversation with your partner about money early in the relationship is the Gold Star approach for avoiding some issues later on. But having those conversations can be really difficult. I know my partner is actually really uncomfortable talking about money.

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He's not interested in sitting down and putting together that shared financial plan. Can you share some tips with our listeners on how you can go about it? Yeah, and I can really empathise with you with your partner's experience there, because for a lot of us, if we've been raised not talking about money and we've not developed those skills, having someone come and sort of say, Hey, I really want to talk about your finances, what assets do you want and what goals do you have can be akin to asking them to stand and drive and be naked.

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And being standing really, really, really makes people feel really vulnerable, doesn't it? Absolutely. So, look, the earlier you can have these conversations, the easy it's going to be, but of course, it's never too late to start and recalibrate the dynamics around money conversations, how you navigate these conversations is going to differ depending on what stage your relationship is at.

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And we're going to go through that and each stage of our relationship in detail. So do stick around. But here's a couple of tips. First up, that will help no matter what situation you have. Excellent. So you need to know yourself, know thyself. So understanding your own money, thoughts, feelings, beliefs and behaviours will help you navigate this conversation.

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And it's really important that you set the scene for the conversation by being really clear about what is it that you want to get from the relationship, from your finances, and from the conversation itself. I would avoid bringing the conversation in. So you have to plan, right? Yeah. Like give them a heads up, let them know that you'd like to have the conversation what it is you want to discuss, because that will make them feel more safe in the conversation, and it'll also allow them to prepare for it as well.

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Now, before we have the conversation, take some time to prepare both yourself and your partner, maybe even write out some notes if that's going to help you stay on track during the conversation. So you set an agenda, if you will, be open about what your personal financial goals are and what your financial situation and again, by you kind of displaying that openness and transparency that's going to encourage your partner to do the same.

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And this is a really important one because we all have different financial situations, backgrounds, behaviours, habits and values. So it's important that you listen to your partner and don't judge them, don't criticise them, because that's just going to shut down the conversation. You want to be empathetic, understanding, and really actively listen to what they're saying because you could hear some things that are really different to your financial habits and that could make you pretty uncomfortable, right?

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Yeah. And like, you know, on the other side, sometimes having differences can be a benefit. You know, in my relationship, I tend to be the more conservative one. No surprises there, and my husband's much more entrepreneurial. But between us, that kind of makes a nice balance. You know, he's been the one who's encouraged me to start my own business.

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If it wasn't for him, I might never have kind of been brave enough to do that. So differences don't have to be a bad thing. It's just around understanding what they are and then using them in a really healthy, positive way to be an advantage. All right. Now, you want to find some common ground between you and your partner because you're a team, right?

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So you want to find alignment. And sometimes that might mean making some compromises to find the middle between the two of you. But it also is important that you don't completely compromise on everything. Again, it's around coming together as a team, contributing in a way that feels equitable for the two of you. You should be discussing income, your expenses, what assets you have, what debts or loans you might have.

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And most importantly, you need to do these conversations regularly. Now, it doesn't have to be this stiff, boring, serious task that you do make it fun, you know, put some music on a glass of wine if it means you bring the cheese and the crackers to just make it a little bit more enjoyable. My romantic Saturday night, is that your suggestion?

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You know, in addition to the rest, I would probably say not to replace it, but money need not be boring and dull and painful. Make it fun, make it enjoyable. Focus on the positives as well as discussing the challenges and hopefully this can become something that you look forward to. So I do want to talk about some different things that we should be talking about, But before we move on from regular, how regular that will depend on you.

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I mean, I don't think every day that might be a little bit overkill. Okay, Kill overkill. But, you know, certainly monthly, quarterly, at least every six months, having a check in to say how are we tracking? And certainly if there's a big event coming up. So my husband and I are navigating moving house is selling one. We've just bought another one.

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And so we're having a quite frequent many conversations at the moment because it's really relevant to what we're navigating right now when we don't have such a big event. It's probably monthly, quarterly that we're just touching base on, you know, how's our spending going, how we tracking with our goals, what's coming up that we need to make a decision around.

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So it's a little bit unique to every individual, but certainly big events and regularly is that is the perfect thank you. So what are the different things you should be talking about at different stages of the relationship? Because it does matter what you talk about at the start versus a couple of years in, Right. Yeah, I mean, talking about it early really sets the scene and kind of creates an expectation, but also the like the seriousness of the topics that come up are going to vary depending where you are.

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So if it's early in the relationship, you're not yet married, you're not living together, things are just starting to get a little bit serious. You know, you might put black in there, you know, you might be saying this is a committed relationship, then it's really important to kind of start bringing up, you know, maybe things like your goals and making sure that they actually align, understanding where you and your partner stand financially.

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Now, this might seem like an uncomfortable chat, but it's not. It's a positive sign for your relationship that you trust them, that you want the relationship to move forward. And this is all just part of the process. So you might touch on your living arrangement. When do you guys maybe want to move in together? Do you want to buy a home together?

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If you are living together, how would you split bills or even if you're not living together, maybe you're just planning a holiday. How you going to pay for that holiday? Who's saving what contributing what? What's the budget for? That holiday's also important, particularly if you have different levels of income. Addressing that nationally can be helpful. Now, if the relationship is getting a bit more serious, you're living together, maybe you're engaged, then these are great opportunities to revisit these conversations.

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So whether this is the first proper conversation you're having, hopefully not, but or simply a check in, this is an important time to make sure that you and your partner are still aligned around your big goals the way that you want to organise money and how you want to contribute financially. If you have or are thinking about having children, it's time to discuss how you're going to pay for them.

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Let me tell you, they are not cheap. And it's often when you have kids is that you face the most financial challenges because your expenses have gone up and your income is often compressed at that point in time. So having those early conversations about how you're going to pay for them are going to reduce potential stress and fives.

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Now, if you're engaged, we might actually want to discuss a prenup. Now, prenup is a very American term actually called binding financial agreements here in Australia. How common are they? I don't actually have the stats on them, but they tend to be more common when someone has significant assets or both of you have significant assets often if it's not your first relationship.

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So it might be that you've had a significant relationship before and you're this is your you your second then prenups tend to be more common then but basically what they are an early agreement between you and your partner around if the relationship were to end how are you going to divide the financial assets and it's really like an insurance policy and it's much easier to make these agreements upfront when things are loving, happy and everyone's friends, then trying to do it across the table during a divorce negotiation and then the other thing that you want to start thinking about is your will and having an estate plan in place.

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Around 50% of Australians die without a will in place, and that creates a big mess for the people left behind. So even if you're young and healthy, it's really important to start discussing your will and where things should go as well. Now, if you're married or in a civil partnership again, you might have children together, you might be living together for two years or more, then you're considered a de facto couple, which is the equivalent of being married.

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So this is a good opportunity to take stock of all your debts, what asset, what cash you have discussing, what are your financial responsibilities within the relationship. And again, let me just reframe that or re-emphasise that point. It's fine to delegate financial tasks, but you must never abdicate. You must never stop engaging with the finances. So, you know, I love negotiating bills and making sure we've got the best deal.

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I find that terribly exciting. My husband would soon stick pins in his eyes, and so I tend to take on that role. But then he's very much a part of all the big decisions around investments and child education and things like that. So it's okay to play different roles, but you've always got to stay aligned and informed. Definitely this is the time to start thinking about what do you want life to look like?

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And then including things like, you know, how do you want to work? When do you want to retire? If something were to happen to one or both of you, what do you want to happen to the kids? To the finances? So having that estate planning and wills in place now, if you have a blended family, this can be a little bit more complicated.

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So it's even more important to have those conversations and get those those documents in place and making sure you cover the costs and think about inheritances that can be a really important part of your discussions. And if you are worried how to bring it up, all the sudden Christmas or the financial year, it can be a nice trigger or an opportunity to say, Let's discuss money, but you don't have to wait.

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There's there's nothing wrong with wanting to discuss more about the family finances now and hopefully you can make it something that's regular before you make it sound so easy. If you wouldn't mind coming to my place and helping me with those conversations, that would be great. I'm sure we've got some listeners that would like you to help do the same around their dinner tables.

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So when we come back after the break, we'll be talking about having a shared account. We'll be right back.

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So bitchy. I know I'm in this situation. A lot of people in relationships take the plunge and they open a shared account. Now I've got one and I use it all the time. My partner never seems to. So I'm interested to work out whether this is worthwhile or not. So, Betsy, we should probably talk about shared accounts specifically, or at least to help me.

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So what do you think? Well, I think shared accounts are really common, and I personally love having a shared account. It makes managing expenses and bills so much easier. It's more transparent. Everyone has access to it. But what's going to be the right set up for you will depend on your relationship, the stage of your relationship, and how you prefer to manage money.

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I certainly can attest that the structures and the numbers of shared accounts and the way we use shared accounts has evolved a lot over the course of my relationship. When we were just living together pre engagement, we had a shared bills account for all the bills of the House, but everything else was pretty independent once we got engaged, married, well, we had a mortgage together and we were using an offset account and there was a lot more shared accounts and transparency.

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But still things were quite separate now that we got kids together, plus the mortgage, you know, it's all in one basket and that works for us. But I know for lots of couples they'll have different structures. So it's really just understanding the pros and cons so you can make an informed decision for yourself around what's going to be the best thing for you.

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I'm glad to hear she that accounts can be really helpful. So I know working for a teachers mutual bank, there are some really good pros and cons to consider when you're thinking about opening a shared account. So what should our listeners consider? Yeah, well, shared accounts can be really helpful, but they do come with a couple of added complications.

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So let's run through the pros first of all. So the pros that it's easier to manage shared expenses. So if you're living together, maybe it's the rent or your mortgage, the utility bills, phone bills and so forth. Also, by consolidating and having less bank accounts, it might mean you're paying less bank fees and more money. I like that one.

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And then, of course, is that greater transparency between you and your partner around where is the money going? And rather than just having one person in charge and reporting back to the other, it's like everyone can see it. Everyone can be informed any point in time. So that's that's a good thing. The cons, however, and this depends on how it's set up, but a shared account can give your partner access to spend that money without needing your authority.

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So it really. Yeah, if there's someone who's a bit of an impulse spender, that could be a little bit dangerous potentially. And of course if it's a shared account you you have shared responsibility for, for that account in the money. So if it, if any debts for example are incurred on the account, well then you are equally responsible for that even if it came from your partner's decisions and actions.

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And then if you break up or if you separate and divorce, there could be shared tax obligations. And closing the account will require both of you to sign and agree to close that account. So that might be something that could be a little bit difficult to navigate, particularly if you're in dispute. So you can also share an account just for bills.

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You don't have to share everything if it makes sense for you to keep independence around the account where you receive your income and just have a shared account for bills, then that's an option that many couples might want to consider as well. That gives you a little bit of that financial independence we talk about. Yeah, exactly. A little bit of both kind of hedging your bets, really sharing so it can be really convenient.

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But having joint accounts can make breaking up or going through a divorce a little trickier. Yes, definitely. So let's chat about break ups and some of the financial aspects of that now. So we're going to dive into break ups and the financial aspects of break ups. And I think there's just so many misconceptions out there. Nicole. Like for a lot of women, they assume that when they separate from the partner that everything just gets divided 5050 and that is not the case if you end up in the family court, how those assets are divided are taken under consideration by the judge, and they will decide how much goes to whom based on what the individual's

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needs are and what they've contributed. So it's not just a 5050 down the middle split. Right. And what I often see with parties with my female clients that have come out of a relationship, you know, divorces are traumatic, at least many of them are. Hopefully, if you do have a separation, it's an amicable one. But quite often there's a lot of animosity.

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It's quite a traumatic event, and that can lead you to not make the best financial decisions at that time because you just want it to be over and you might end up settling for an agreement that actually isn't really in your best financial interest. So I think breakups can hit our emotions really hard, but you do need to find ways to be able to navigate those practical aspects of it well, and that might mean getting good advice or getting really good support from the people around you.

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So if you're going through a breakup, a separation or divorce, you need to think about a few things. One, you firstly need to work out your living arrangements. So is someone going to move out? Will you rent out your home that you were in together? And with rising housing costs, there's been an increase in the number of people who are actually separated but living under the same roof, that doesn't sound funny, just quietly, potentially tricky.

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The second thing you need to do is understand what your bills are and how they're being paid. Check the affordability of these bills. And if it is something that you can no longer afford to do, consider making alternative arrangements. So if you're closing a shared bank account, remember both of you will need to sign to close that account.

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If you have children, there's going to be additional considerations around where they're going to live and how they're going to be supported. And I think that's a really, really important one for people to navigate. And then finally it comes down to if you've got shared assets, how are you going to divide them? And again, this may be something that you need professional support to navigate.

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So that will be through your lawyers or potentially mediators. Ideally, if you and your partner can agree on something that feels equitable for everyone, then you can avoid that because there's lawyers and mediators, they are expensive. So you should really try to get all this done as quickly as is possible and as is reasonable and working out these kind of practical elements of your separation can really be a load off your mind once it's all done and dusted.

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And again, it's really going to help you set yourself up for the future and move on. Absolutely. And I think you have to remember, don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. Ask your friends, Ask your family to help out. Maybe they can find you a place to stay or they can sit down with you and help you work out what bills you need to cover and how best to do that.

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I think the key is don't think you're alone in in this break up again. We don't like talking about money a lot of the time, but you don't have to go through all of this alone. And your friends, your family, they won't mind helping out with this kind of thing, right? Absolutely. And if you think you might need a bit of bit more help than what your friends and family can kind of handle or offer, then there's some really great resources out there.

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So the first one is Financial Counselling Australia. Their web address is WW W dot Financial Counselling Australia or are you where you can find qualified financial counsellors? They also have a helpline which is one 877. Then you've got the family relationship advice line on one 800 050321 or they also have a website which is family relationships dot gov to you and they have really sound advice for families who are navigating a separation which is really beneficial.

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There's also a divorce and separation financial checklist on the money smart dot gov today you website and of course don't hesitate to call your bank. They can help you to. We're always here to help and always ready to help however we can. And there's a number of things that your bank can do. And most people don't necessarily think that they can speak to their bank with a they're going through a relationship breakdown.

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But there are absolutely things that bank teams can do to help you understand your finances in more detail. Can help you restructure your accounts and potentially your mortgage if there's something that needs to be adjusted there. And of course, there is financial hardship and vulnerability arrangements that we can make, including opportunities to direct you to external help and support depending on your particular financial or personal challenge.

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So don't forget your bank can be really helpful in these kinds of situations. So as for today, I think we're out of time. Thank you again, Betsy. That was a really interesting conversation. I'm enjoying working relationships. I think it's a very challenging one that we all need to navigate. On that note, I want to thank you and I want to thank our listeners for joining us, too.

00:31:22:28 - 00:32:06:29

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Women's Financial Empowerment Podcast. Tune into episode five when between I continue to discuss money and relationships, but with a focus on financial abuse and who people can turn to for help. So a serious topic, but one worth tapping into. And as a reminder for our Australian listeners, if you think you might be in an unhealthy relationship, you can call one 800 respect on one 800 737732 to talk to someone or text one 800 respect on 0458737732 and that's help via SMS or call lifeline on 131114.

00:32:07:05 - 00:32:21:18

And if you're in danger, please call 000 for emergency support. Thank you so much. I'm Nicole Banks and we'll see you next time.

END OF EPISODE